Flat earth

Discussion in 'TT - Public' started by Moonpony, Jul 15, 2017.

  1. Aeoli Pera

    Aeoli Pera Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2016
    Posts:
    1,576
    Thanks Received:
    472
    If I wanted to study the psychological and sociological behaviors of recent converts to new belief systems, does anyone know where I should look?
     
  2. Lorien

    Lorien Active Member Typed

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Posts:
    162
    Thanks Received:
    129
    He has to invent "atmospheric zooming" because he doesn't understand how perspective works. He demonstrates this inability when he has to guess how far away the boat is, rather than calculating it. The calculation isn't hard, and his guess is very far off the mark. He's an incompetent hack.

    It is interesting though, that in order to explain why you sometimes can't see the bottom of the buildings, he has to assume that the atmosphere somehow changes the path of the light, so that it is not straight, just like a lense does. Which is precisely the mechanism by which you see mirages.

    So if believing mirages is irrational, we are happily in the same boat, you irrational fucker you :)


    Now there was one more thing you were ignoring. I thoroughly refuted your fire-a-cannonball-straight-up and spacejump examples, all the way back at page 1. By calculating that though the effect is real, it is so small as to not be practically measurable.

    Since you didn't respond I had assumed you tacitly conceded the point. But now when you have claimed that not a single of your evidence and demonstrations have been refuted, I'd like to hear your response.
     
    • Thank Thank x 1
  3. Lorien

    Lorien Active Member Typed

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Posts:
    162
    Thanks Received:
    129
    Something to lighten the mood... maybe?

     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  4. Aeoli Pera

    Aeoli Pera Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2016
    Posts:
    1,576
    Thanks Received:
    472
    I would consider it a worthy side project to confirm or debunk this claim, but it would probably require about 100 hours of effort on my part. If my life becomes stable enough for long enough, with sufficient organization, I'll do this. Feel free to remind me in a couple of years.
     
  5. Aeoli Pera

    Aeoli Pera Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2016
    Posts:
    1,576
    Thanks Received:
    472
    You're confusing reflection with refraction, both conceptually and by simple word replacement. That's a disqualifying mistake in an argument about optics.
     
  6. BiceBiceBice

    BiceBiceBice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2016
    Posts:
    746
    Thanks Received:
    337
    Thats unfortunate. But what about the moon, that is your username after all, is it flat or round? Maybe its
    disc-shaped?
    If the moon doesn't exist then why do you have the word moon in your username - yes getting ahead of myself here, maybe moonpony will be the first flat-earther in existence to discuss space in general c̶r̶o̶s̶s̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶n̶e̶t̶s̶
     
  7. Moonpony

    Moonpony Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2017
    Posts:
    95
    Thanks Received:
    13
    Still waiting for this curvature
     
  8. Moonpony

    Moonpony Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2017
    Posts:
    95
    Thanks Received:
    13
    No refraction, no excuses - Different days same target, no curvature



    [​IMG]
     
  9. Mycroft Jones

    Mycroft Jones The TM/FM Station Baron

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    Posts:
    301
    Thanks Received:
    113
    Head on down to your nearest local Kingdom Hall of the Jehovah's Witnesses, it'll fill your boots.
     
    • Thank Thank x 1
  10. Mycroft Jones

    Mycroft Jones The TM/FM Station Baron

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    Posts:
    301
    Thanks Received:
    113
    Not confusing them so much as conflating them. They both fall in the category of "seeing things that aren't actually there" which seemed to the main thrust of Doompony's point. Following his logic about refraction and mirages, he shouldn't be able to accept reflections either. But Lorien addressed this much more accurately (and humorously) than I did.

    Oh, and his thing about the south pole being a "reflection" of stars in the northern hemisphere? No. Nice theory demolished in ten seconds by simple observation of the layout of stars in the northern and southern hemisphere. I mean seriously... this is the first real attempt at explaining the south pole I've seen from the Flat Earth camp, and it is about as weak as it gets.

    Go up a mountain that overlooks the sea (or one of the Great Lakes if you are in the USA) and measure the angle to the horizon. Guarantee the horizon isn't perfectly level, as flat earther's claim. When you see the angle to the horizon, there is your "seeing curvature with your own eyes".
     
  11. Brilliand

    Brilliand Active Member Typed

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    Posts:
    541
    Thanks Received:
    131
    wrt that fourth option... turbulent water is not a rarity.
     
  12. Apercus

    Apercus Benefactor of Humanity Baron

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2016
    Posts:
    595
    Thanks Received:
    391
    Special Relativity (or Lorentz ether theory) is necessary to reconcile the Maxwell-Lorentz equations with Newton's Third Law. If you reject SR then you have to either reject action/reaction or modify classical electrodynamics. Many people have thought about doing the latter, such as the proponents of Weberian electrodynamics or those who believe in longitudinal space-waves.
     
  13. Mycroft Jones

    Mycroft Jones The TM/FM Station Baron

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    Posts:
    301
    Thanks Received:
    113
    I do recommend the documentary "Journey to the Center of the Universe", I beleive it addresses all of those points. The Lorentz transform in particular, is shown for the curve-fitting fraud that it is. Also Special Relativity. The Electric Universe folks have my full attention. Most geocentrists are also Electric Universe, from whence Flat Earth plundered the concept with their claims that "gravity doesn't exist".
     
  14. Auriga

    Auriga New Member Typed

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2017
    Posts:
    8
    Thanks Received:
    3
    There is an observation you can make, by eyesight without a telescope, to distinguish between the round earth and flat earth hypotheses. At the equinox:
    Equinox - Wikipedia | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox

    in the round earth model, the sun rises almost exactly East and sets almost exactly West. In the flat earth model, for observers at about 44 degrees Northern latitude (like Toronto, Canada), the sun rises and sets about 20 degrees to the North, which can be seen by looking at the video at time 1:27 (87 seconds):


    from that same video, for observers at about 38 degrees Southern latitude, (like Auckland, New Zealand), the sun rises and sets about 50 degrees to the North.

    This effect is large, and can easily be seen by eyesight. The deviation only goes to zero at the north pole, in even the most northerly city, the effect of can be definitely seen. The next equinox is September 23, so anyone can check whether the earth is round or flat then. The effect occurs year round, in the flat earth model the sun rises and sets far north compared to where it would rise and set on a round world, the calculation is just easiest on the equinox days.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
  15. Moonpony

    Moonpony Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2017
    Posts:
    95
    Thanks Received:
    13
    The non-curvature of standing water shows that the world cannot possibly be a globe, regardless of the appearance of the stars or the accuracy of maps.


    Yeah, because we totally know how far away the stars are and how they would look when reflected...

    Again, no refutation, just "hur dur crazy flat earthers"..

    If standing water is perfectly flat and level, and not conforming to the geoid shape, then you can't have a globe, regardless of everything else, that's pretty much the end of it. Long distance proofs invalidate the globe. The southern stars are probably the reflection in the dome of the north stars, which is consistent with everything else revolving around the Polaris axis.
     
  16. Moonpony

    Moonpony Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2017
    Posts:
    95
    Thanks Received:
    13
    Also, props to Auriga for posting a good FE video. Even though the stars aren't proper in that model, the video of the artic midnight sun is excellent. The earth's tilt was introduced into the heliocentric model to account for the midnight sun, but of course this earths tilt is totally invalidated by the fact the constellations don't go out of alignment as the earth revolves the sun. So regardless of whether the earth is flat or round, the cosmos is definitely geocentric, a position which is equally "crazy" to the mainstream.

    A geocentric universe implies a creator, a flat earth geocentric universe implies a creator to an even greater degree, so arguing with a geocentrist about whether the earth is flat or round is sort of a inter-camp feud, because the basic fact that the earth is the stationary, immovable centre of the universe is agreed upon.
     
  17. Moonpony

    Moonpony Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2017
    Posts:
    95
    Thanks Received:
    13
    Of course, the sun rotating above the artic circle above a stationary earth is inconsistent with the earth being a globe if the earth is also stationary... so FE'rs win again..
     
  18. Mycroft Jones

    Mycroft Jones The TM/FM Station Baron

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    Posts:
    301
    Thanks Received:
    113
    Good point, Auriga. You can see the location on the horizon of sunrise and sunset for the current day according to the globe model here: SunCalc sun position and sunlight phases calculator | http://suncalc.net/ I've used it over the years, and found that it matches my own observations of where the sun rises.

    Can you show the calculations to determine the location (and time) of sunrise on the horizon for globe and flat earth? suncalc is handy because it works for anywhere on earth.

    Of course, once Flat Earthers accept the phenomena of refraction and mirages, they use them in their usual manner to discount any visual observation they don't like.

    Update

    The ending of that video Aurigo... I almost spit out my milk laughing. That explains the Tila Tequila connection from Flat Earth to Spencer/Alt-Right.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
  19. Mycroft Jones

    Mycroft Jones The TM/FM Station Baron

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    Posts:
    301
    Thanks Received:
    113
    Doompony's theme song:

     
  20. Ulixes Orobar

    Ulixes Orobar Active Member Typed

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Posts:
    147
    Thanks Received:
    33
    Since I frequent that part of the FaceTubes, I've also seen memes that reference the celestial Hakenkreuz. We call it the "Great Huwhite North" for a reason. :D
     

Share This Page