Flat earth

Discussion in 'TT - Public' started by Moonpony, Jul 15, 2017.

  1. Aeoli Pera

    Aeoli Pera Admin Staff Member

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    Thank you for answering. This model has no explanation for retrograde motion (being content to describe it as something that just happens for no reason) and furthermore ignores

    1. that the sun observably rises and sets (why don't I see the sun far away over England?), and
    2. that, from my latitude, the sun observably rises south of east and sets south of west (according to the model it should fade away north of west in the evening).
     
  2. Aeoli Pera

    Aeoli Pera Admin Staff Member

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    Or, good lies are not necessary for a successful lie.
     
  3. Vejiortan

    Vejiortan Geheimrat Baron

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    Depends on how dumb your target is.
     
  4. Aeoli Pera

    Aeoli Pera Admin Staff Member

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    Maybe we should begin from the beginning. Pony, do you avow, yea or nay, that the motion of purely physical objects is 100% governed by laws which they must obey continually?
     
  5. Aeoli Pera

    Aeoli Pera Admin Staff Member

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    Not a trivial distinction in the practice of mass propaganda, agree?
     
  6. Apercus

    Apercus Benefactor of Humanity Baron

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    Geoid - Wikipedia | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoid

    I totally agree. If we really live inside of a dome we should use hydrogen bombs to blow it open and see what's on the other side, let Jehovah know we mean business.
     
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  7. Vejiortan

    Vejiortan Geheimrat Baron

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    If flat earth were true, then it would be relatively easy to find very convincing arguments for it. Thus, spreading it would give many intelligent high AH men the chance to find these arguments and spread them on blogs and videos. Convinging arguments would convince more and more people, until local authorities in the fringe - like Vox - would start to hint about it. Then flat earth could become very far spread indeed.

    Thus, spreading flat earth as disinfo would be a very poor strategy in the mid and long term. And the short term advantage is miniscule - fringe isn't that connected, and there are many topics on the fringe which less fringy men already find idiotic - aliens, conspiracy, etc.

    It depends largely on whether one thinks the elite are mostly short term thinkers, or whether they have long term plans.

    And isn`t it saver to overestimate than you underestimate those you regard as your enemies ?
     
  8. Thalmoses

    Thalmoses Founder Administrator

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    > And isn`t it saver to overestimate than you underestimate those you regard as your enemies ?

    No. Tout l'audace. In stickfighting, there is little defense that isn't offense. Successful entrepreneurs are irrationally optimistic.

    Flat Earth was a successful disinfo campaign, but it has failed to transfer to the new generation of crowd-feedback web 2.0 media, and only partially successful at penetrating the prior generation of web 2.0.

    I really wonder whether Tex believes it or just mentions it to discredit himself.
     
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  9. Aeoli Pera

    Aeoli Pera Admin Staff Member

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    Answer my question first. "The answer follows from the post" doesn't count this time.
     
  10. Ulixes Orobar

    Ulixes Orobar Active Member Typed

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    This.

    The (most popular modern) flat-Earth model implies that, as it sets, the Sun should grow smaller and dimmer before appearing to merge with the horizon. This does not happen. At sunset, the Sun does not appear to change size, and it appears to dip below the horizon. In addition to that, the flat-Earth model does not, as far as I know, explain the phases of Venus, which one can see with a cheap telescope.

    This whole thread has made it clear to me that many people no longer trust many of our institutions. Frankly, I don't blame them.
     
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  11. Vejiortan

    Vejiortan Geheimrat Baron

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    If you want a very explicitly formulated answer, you'll get one.
    But I'll ask, too : Is it that you're not understanding what I mean because it's not explicitly enough written ? Or is it that you are evaluating differently (more pedantic) than usual ?

    I agree that the intelligence of the audience is very important when considering which propaganda to use. Thus good lies might not be required for manipulating normals. But since bad lies are easily refuted by non-normals, using them gives people like Vox very good arguments indeed. And normals who regard Vox as an authority figure will not be manipulated by these lies once he makes his disagreement public.
     
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  12. Vejiortan

    Vejiortan Geheimrat Baron

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    You found a context in which my statement is wrong. But that wasn't the context with which (or in which) it was intended to be read.
     
  13. Brilliand

    Brilliand Active Member Typed

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    That depends. The most terrible thing you can do to an idea is to be the only person talking about it, and arrange to be outed as wrong after fooling some people. This is even possible to do with the truth, by slipping in idiocy from angles that most people won't look at first. If you can pull this off before anyone honest goes public with the truth, then you've effectively poisoned the well, and anyone coming after will be seen as your follower (who will of course be wrong for the same reasons you were, not that anyone will remember what those were).

    Of course, the real propagandists wouldn't do only that. They would use every propaganda technique at once, to avoid having their actions produce a pattern pointing to the truth.
     
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  14. Thalmoses

    Thalmoses Founder Administrator

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    The reader may judge whether the several examples I mentioned are more similar to the case under discussion than a situation in which caution is paramount, such as clearing a minefield by hand.
     
  15. Brilliand

    Brilliand Active Member Typed

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    I rather think war proper is the proper analogy here. When the situation is genuinely complex, you do not press the "one strategy button" and expect to win. Neither overestimating nor underestimating is a good idea. Nonetheless, I think Vejiortan has a valid point here - I would rephrase it as "any enemy who has succeeded in being a threat to us for any length of time is clearly close to us in intelligence (if not even more intelligent), hence we should assume that they are using the best strategy that we can think of".
     
  16. Mycroft Jones

    Mycroft Jones The TM/FM Station Baron

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    Interestingly enough, that IS the case for geocentricity and moon landings. (The Vox effect) I have a link to a good writeup that shows Flat Earth psy-op was pushed immediately after geocentricity finally started to get traction with the movie "The Principle". As a Geocentrist for almost 20 years, I know the scene; scientific, bookish types doing careful science for love of Truth, because there was definitely no Glory in it. Flat Earth is completely the opposite, rips off the geocentric material, and fill sit so full of lies and laughable assertions, I was shocked it spread as far as it did. Sadly, it spread farthest and hardest among those who consider themselves hardcore Bible believers, but who aren't the highest in IQ.
     
  17. Mycroft Jones

    Mycroft Jones The TM/FM Station Baron

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  18. Mycroft Jones

    Mycroft Jones The TM/FM Station Baron

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    I also note that Tila Tequila was a part of the flat earth psy-op, and pops up a couple years later to discredit the Alt Right through her connection with Richard Spencer.
     
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  19. Moonpony

    Moonpony Member

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    But the long distance proof I just posted proves that wiki entry false.

    Unless water behaves, magically, differently on different areas of the earth, flat in some places, bending more in others, and whatever irrational nonsense you want to fudge to validate your imaginary globe.

    There's an underlying assumption there that material explaining flat earth will just magically be there regardless of how much this viewpoint is suppressed and maligned.

    But yes, it is is getting easier to find good FE material.

    The sun rising and setting is the sun moving in and out of the range of vision.

    Maps can be fudged, so it's possible you aren't where you think you are. The AE projection isn't agreed upon by FE by any means.

    Retrograde motion is probably the electromagnetism of the sun affecting the wandering stars.

    As usual, a TM is using melony nonsense, pretending that reality is abstract and meaningless, condemning FE as a "psy op" without refuting the simple long distance proof already posted.

    My proof stands unrefuted, if Earth was a globe, it would be impossible to disprove the curvature so easily.

    If you can't prove curvature of water like Apercus posted, then literally everything else is bunk. Until you can show the oceans curving (something that would make lighthouses useless) then you are failing to refute flat earth, only handwaving about muh deep state, muh psy op.

    You know what you don't have?

    Physical evidence.
     
  20. Aeoli Pera

    Aeoli Pera Admin Staff Member

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    This is banal to the point of being evil. If you can't even correctly describe the process of the sun setting, you have no business describing anything.
     
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